User talk:Cherokee48

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African-American Muslims

Hello Cherokee48. I'm leaving you this message to explain why I reverted (undid) your changes to African-American Muslims.

Wikipedia's policies require that information added to the encyclopedia be verifiable. That means it has to be supported by reliable sources, and not represent editors' interpretations of those sources.

You added to the article that more than half of the Africans taken as slaves to North America came from areas where Islam was practiced by at least a minority of the population. Beside the fact that this is a meaningless statement (who cares if 1% or 2% of the population of their area were Muslims), the source doesn't say anything remotely like that on the pages you cited.

You also added that substantial numbers came from Senegambia, a region with a historic Muslim community that dates to the 11th century. The source doesn't say anything about Senegambia, not on the pages you cited or anywhere else from what I can tell.

If you continue to add information that is not supported by reliable sources, it will be removed. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 21:02, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Malik Shabazz, I have received your message about the reverted changes on the African American Muslims page. I am aware of the wikipedia policy concerning verifiable sources. It seems that you have misunderstood the point of the addition to the page. The statement that the Africans taken as slaves to North America came from areas where Islam was practiced by at least a minority of the population is not at all saying that Islam was practiced by 1-2% of the population. The author in the referenced work "Islam in North America A Sourcebook" made a clear assertion that Islam was the dominant faith in the area despite the ethnic diversity and referenced the work of historians Philip Curtain and Ivor Wilks to further illustrate the example. The point of the statement in the change to the page made sure to mention that at the "very least" there was a significant Muslim population in this area. You mentioned that Senegambia was not at all referenced in the source cited and I did not find that to be accurate. The work cited the story of Ayuba Sulaiman from Fula controlled Bondou and his abduction from Gambia in 1731 and his transportation by force to Maryland. It also mentioned in the cited work that Senegambians arrived in America during the 1520's with European explorers as well. I'm not at all sure that we are talking about the same work. "Islam in North America A Sourcebook" Edited by Michael Koszegi & J.Gordon Melton. (Cherokee48 (talk) 00:19, 16 October 2017 (UTC))[reply]

Yes, that's the book I reviewed, both at Amazon.com and Google Books. On pages 26–27, Lansiné Kaba writes that Columbus had a converso Muslim as an interpreter, that guides from Morroco served the Franciscans in what is now New Mexico and Arizona, and there were Senegambians, who practiced some Islamic practices, among those enslaved during the 1520s. The next two paragraphs describe four individual African Muslims who were enslaved and brought to North America.

Nowhere does the book say anything about the history of Islam in Senegambia—in fact, it doesn't even describe the Senegambians as Muslims, merely as participating in some Muslim practices. Nowhere does it say that "over 50% of the slaves kidnapped to North America came from areas where Islam was followed by at least a minority population", that "no less than 200,000 came from regions influenced by Islam", or that "substantial numbers originated from Senegambia".

You can't make up your own interpretation of a source. You can't twist it to say what it doesn't clearly say. Please read WP:Verifiability and WP:No original research, because almost everything you added to the article violated them. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 00:41, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that you are unaware that the author was referencing West Africa in general and due to that large area mentioned the Senegambia region specifically as an example of the Muslim faith's dominance in the area(West Africa). Even a cursory search or study of the West Africa region shows that the assertion of Senegambians(people from the countries of Senegal and Gambia)as overwhelmingly Muslim is more than accurate. Your original complaint mentioned that the article cited did not say anything about the region of Senegambia (which is the present day countries of Senegal and Gambia in West Africa) yet your second response confirmed my assertion that the region was in fact mentioned and more than once in the article cited. You then proceeded to curiously reference the evidence contrary to your claim about Senegambia and Muslims in the area that I provided to show how wrong you were? That error in and of itself on your part has demonstrated the validity and historical accuracy of the data and its source material. I'm not sure what the hang up is. It is also puzzling that you took issue with the work cited for not specifically describing Senegambians as Muslims and that it only says some participated in Muslim practices. The answer to this is amusingly obvious, it does not need to mention this fact as it is redundant and obvious to anyone with even a basic knowledge of Senegal and the Gambia. It is fairly common knowledge that this is a predominantly Muslim area and has been from the 11th century to the present day. Basic research of the nations of Senegal and Gambia shows that this is historically accurate as well. You don't seem to be aware of the work of the scholar and historian Philip Curtin and the reason the author of this source made a mention of him on this page as well as Ivor Wilks. Curtin (I suggest taking a look at his various works) was a well known historian and pioneered the modern methods of statistical analysis to determine the extent of the Atlantic slave trade which is the basis of modern western scholastic understanding of the slave trade. The statistics referenced in the change to the page come from the statistical analysis of Curtin as well as the study of Wilks. It seems to me that your issue is with the validity of the level of scholarship and statistical analysis of Curtin and Wilks rather than the source that cited their work. This was not in any way an attempt to interpret a source or make it say something it doesn't. Their work as well as the source cited says plenty on its own. To avoid another oversight similar to the one you made about Senegambia not being mentioned in this source I suggest you get familiar with the work of these two scholars before challenging the validity of their widely accepted study which again is the basis of modern western understanding of the Atlantic slave trade. (Cherokee48 (talk) 06:54, 16 October 2017 (UTC))[reply]

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July 2018

Please do not add or change content, as you did at Birmingham, Alabama, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 17:55, 21 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for August 6

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Birmingham, Alabama, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Gateway and Black Belt (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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